Interview with a Therapist: Anonymous, Part 1

Next up in the series on The Church & Mental Health where I interview Christian therapists to talk about the intersection of spirituality and psychology:

Today's interview is with Anonymous Therapist. We talked about what the church can do to support mental health, dealing with depression, suicide and abuse, the stigma of seeking help and taking medication, integrating spirituality with therapy, and knowing when to call the cops.

This interview has been edited for clarity.

Q: What can we do to de-stigmatize mental illness within the church?

AT: By being open—for instance, I noticed that bigger churches—I think it was Saddleback or another Christian church in Orange County—they offered mental health services—referrals. Our church doesn't really do that, as far as I know, unless you ask around specifically. 

I think a lot of it—certain issues like trauma, sexual abuse, depression, the church doesn't really want to address. I've had friends who have been suicidal and they didn't know who to turn to. So, being open that healing can come from different avenues besides the church.

Photo by Eje Gustafsson

Q: Do you have any ideas or concrete ways that the church could do that?

AT: Sure, there's another issue—domestic violence—how is that addressed in the church? It happens. How does the staff deal with that? Do they refer anyone? 

That one church that I was talking about, they had domestic violence classes and they offered a list of things for the congregation. 

Just being open: “Hey, if you have an issue, come meet with us. And if we're not the appropriate person we can refer you to someone else.” But there's nothing ever said about that, at all.

The one positive thing that I've seen is when Erwin Mcmanus [pastor of Mosaic] did his talk about being severely depressed. Because no one really wants to talk about that. No one wants to talk about, “Well, okay, you're a Christian, but what happens [when] you're depressed, what happens if you get prayed for and, “I'm still depressed.” 

Everyone wants that instant healing, and it doesn't happen that way. People deal with depression for years, on their own, without any help.

Q: How can we as individuals talk about mental health in a way that respects individual experience and takes away the stigma? Not, “There's something wrong with you"—

AT: Yeah, like “You need to get prayed for,” “You don't believe."

The best example I heard was from Erwin: We don't look at mental health issues or illness like physical illness, we treat it like, “You'll get better,” “Don't feel that way,” “Just pray.” And that's not how things get better.

Someone has an issue that they're dealing with and it's internal—and it's like [telling] a cripple, “Hey, you can walk, if you just believe enough.” 

It may not happen for him—he may be crippled for the rest of his life. That doesn't make him less of a person, it's just a part of him that he has to deal with. 

That was the best experience that I've had as far as the church being open about mental health issues.

I think individually we need to stop saying, “Hey, don't feel that way.” I do it sometimes and I have to stop myself, and I have to be like, “No, they're coming from a place—they feel this way."

“Okay yeah, I understand what you're saying.” And trying to give them advice like, “Have you prayed, have you done this—”

They may have done all of those things and it didn't work. Their healing may come from multiple sources. And it all goes back to God. But how it comes about, it might be through different people or experiences. I don't necessarily think it just has to be one thing and that's it.

Q: What resources should the church offer and invest in related to mental health?

In general, the church should attach itself to some type of psychologist or Christian [therapist]—people that they feel are going to be able to handle this type of work—it's specialized work. 

There are some programs where pastors also take therapy classes and they have a dual role as a psychologist and a pastor, but not everyone does. 

And what we're seeing now is a [greater] need for mental health services because of drugs, prolonged trauma...and you do need specialized care for this, someone to work with you who understands these issues without judgment.

Even referring people, [saying] “Hey, we don't have the expertise in this area, but we want to support you. Here is a list of people we work with that we would recommend to you for these certain issues.”

M: So basically just having a list of referrals—any church could do that.

But if you notice very few churches have it on their website.

I honestly don't know if our church—I'm sure that they do, but I don't want to say that Mosaic has it. It's mostly word of mouth and I don't think it should be like that. 

Because people find it hard to open up to others about their issues and sometimes they just need a referral, “Who can I go to?”

A: What helpful or not helpful things do you think churches do?

If someone is suicidal, prayer is great, but you need to call the cops. [We both laugh]

Don't just leave them there and pray for them, you need to call the cops—[prayer] is not enough, it's so not enough. 

If you know that if you leave them alone and you walk away that they're going to hurt themselves and they have a plan, then you have to call the cops. Even I would. 

It's a crisis—if you're in a crisis situation, that's the only thing you can do. Even if you're a therapist. The number one issue right there is safety—safety for yourself, safety for your client. 

Q. What if a friend is not suicidal, but you can tell that something is wrong? If you don't feel that they're going to hurt themselves, but...who do I talk to?

It doesn't hurt [to call the cops]. Some police officers have been trained in assessing suicidal clients or clients who are in harm's way—they don't know where they're at, they're unaware of their surroundings and someone can hurt them. 

The emergency operators have a feel for the situation. That's always your best option.

If someone's just depressed—

There's a difference in the type of situation that becomes a crisis versus someone going through a very difficult time. 

The intensity is different. And if you're in a crisis mode where you feel like they're in danger—immediate danger, there has to be a sense of immediacy—then I would just call the police. 

Because there's nothing that you can do without having law enforcement help you. I would say that law enforcement is good about at least taking them in if they're suicidal, and then they get assessed by someone. 

It sounds a little scary, but in the end you have to think about safety and what you can do.

[To be continued...]